Burn in Hell, PNC Bank

I’m back from “Orlando”, but more on that later.

I have decided that I must switch banks.  Why?  Because the folks at PNC Bank are unethical bloodsuckers.

This story starts out with me making a error.  I fully acknowledge that my idiocy starts the ball rolling here, but it ends with PNC being a company I no longer want to use for banking.  When paying my bills at the end of the month, I forgot to stick a – sign on one of the payments I made when entering it into my spreadsheet.  This led to me thinking that I had about $300  more in my checking account than I actually did.

After I pay my bills, I generally transfer all but a little bit of spending money out of the checking account and into the savings account.  I mainly did this to keep my money safe, as this way if someone got my debit card or account info or something, there’d just be a small amount of loss to deal with.  I suppose it’s also to get that killer interest in my savings account.. that whole 1% per year PNC ‘generously’ gives me.   But as it turns out transferring the money doesn’t do anything to make it safer.

PNC has this brilliant “overdraft protection” policy.  And by “overdraft protection” policy, I mean “and excuse to be fuckers and steal your money” policy.  When ever something goes over your account balance they thoughtfully transfer money from your savings account into your checking account to cover it, and only take $10 of your money for their trouble.  I suppose this might make sense for checks.  But it makes no sense when it comes to check card purchases and of all things ATM withdrawals.   Rather than decline your purchase with the check card, they just happily let it go through, and charge you $10 bucks.  No warning in any way.  Rather than tell you that there’s no money in your account when using ONE OF THEIR OWN ATMs, the machine just happily whirs away, giving you the requested cash, while taking out $10 bucks on the back end with out letting you know.  It’s their OWN ATM for fuck’s sake…  I can’t imagine going to a teller and trying to withdraw money and NOT have them tell you that you’re overdrawn, but this is some how OK if you’re using an ATM??

So when I logged into my account today, I noticed about 4 or 5 of these fees and got really angry.  I used PNC ATMs 3 times during this period, and not once did they let me know I was overdrawn.  I used my card multiple times, and they just happily approved the transactions without batting an eye.

I called their customer ‘service’ line and tried to reason with them, spoke with a call center manager, and told them I’d happily pay one overdraft fee, as this did start with my error, but that their failure to notify me of this and allow me to continue to withdraw money through their own ATM would cost them my business unless they refunded the other fees.  They flatly refused. The woman even went so far as telling me that I was lying because there’s no way their ATM didn’t tell me about the overdraft.  I asked why I would have kept using it, without taking 4 seconds to make an online transfer from savings, if it had warned me.   So, to them my business is less valuable than the 30 – 40 dollars they stole from me though their outdated and non-optional overdraft “protection” “service”.

Up until now I had always like PNC Bank, too.  What I realize now is that I didn’t like them because of anything they were really doing to keep me happy.  It’s just that they were mostly inoffensive and had a good online banking system with a good user interface.    It’s not that they were particularly great in anyway.  They just didn’t bother me.  Now, though, I’m bothered.

The plan is to take my business elsewhere.  I’m thinking that one of them new-fangled internet banks might be the way to go.  They are still FDIC ensured, many have good ATM arrangements so that you don’t get screwed with lots of fees, and most of them offer at LEAST 3% interest on savings.. and some up to 5%, compared to the 1% I’m getting at PNC, or the .8% I’d get at National City.

So any ideas?  Does anyone have experience with some of these online banks?

87 Responses to “Burn in Hell, PNC Bank”

  1. Sarah Says:

    Every bank and person needs to have overdraft protection. Go RBC! These posts worry me though; the RBC down the street from me just got turned into a PNC. Did they fucking join arms or some shit?

  2. Jack Ripper Says:

    Here’s the answer that everyone has overlooked:

    The UCC, that the Uniform Commercial Code to the rest of us is a federal law, with mirrowed state laws to conduct business. Apparently, they have until midnight the next business day to send you notice of the overdraft before they can legally “steal” your money. Problem is… they can’t prove they ever sent anything if there is no signed mail receipt. And if they start to say that we have a computer do it for us then that is HERESAY and they would have to rely on an exception like business records. But it doesn’t prove anything if you had money in their bank somewhere else, never had an overdraft before or any other business records that you keep. Who’s to say they are always right and never make mistakes. File a small claims case against them and make em have to show up or face a default judgement. Time is money and if everyone stops crying about it and does something about it then you win… Even if you don’t recover your money. Think about it????? TARP money is interest free, tax free money supplied by the government and given to these heartless pigs. Make em spend. Resist their BS and do something 99%.

    § 3-503. NOTICE OF DISHONOR.
    (a) The obligation of an indorser stated in Section 3-415(a) and the obligation of a drawer stated in Section 3-414(d) may not be enforced unless (i) the indorser or drawer is given notice of dishonor of the instrument complying with this section or (ii) notice of dishonor is excused under Section 3-504(b).
    (b) Notice of dishonor may be given by any person; may be given by any commercially reasonable means, including an oral, written, or electronic communication; and is sufficient if it reasonably identifies the instrument and indicates that the instrument has been dishonored or has not been paid or accepted. Return of an instrument given to a bank for collection is sufficient notice of dishonor.
    (c) Subject to Section 3-504(c), with respect to an instrument taken for collection by a collecting bank, notice of dishonor must be given (i) by the bank before midnight of the next banking day following the banking day on which the bank receives notice of dishonor of the instrument, or (ii) by any other person within 30 days following the day on which the person receives notice of dishonor. With respect to any other instrument, notice of dishonor must be given within 30 days following the day on which dishonor occurs.
    (a) Presentment for payment or acceptance of an instrument is excused if (i) the person entitled to present the instrument cannot with reasonable diligence make presentment, (ii) the maker or acceptor has repudiated an obligation to pay the instrument or is dead or in insolvency proceedings, (iii) by the terms of the instrument presentment is not necessary to enforce the obligation of indorsers or the drawer, (iv) the drawer or indorser whose obligation is being enforced has waived presentment or otherwise has no reason to expect or right to require that the instrument be paid or accepted, or (v) the drawer instructed the drawee not to pay or accept the draft or the drawee was not obligated to the drawer to pay the draft.
    (b) Notice of dishonor is excused if (i) by the terms of the instrument notice of dishonor is not necessary to enforce the obligation of a party to pay the instrument, or (ii) the party whose obligation is being enforced waived notice of dishonor. A waiver of presentment is also a waiver of notice of dishonor.
    (c) Delay in giving notice of dishonor is excused if the delay was caused by circumstances beyond the control of the person giving the notice and the person giving the notice exercised reasonable diligence after the cause of the delay ceased to operate.


    Rule 406. Habit; Routine Practice

    Evidence of a person’s habit or an organization’s routine practice may be admitted to prove that on a particular occasion the person or organization acted in accordance with the habit or routine practice. The court may admit this evidence regardless of whether it is corroborated or whether there was an eyewitness.


    (Pub. L. 93–595, §1, Jan. 2, 1975, 88 Stat. 1932; Apr. 26, 2011, eff. Dec. 1, 2011.)

    Notes of Advisory Committee on Proposed Rules

    An oft-quoted paragraph, McCormick, §162, p. 340, describes habit in terms effectively contrasting it with character:

    “Character and habit are close akin. Character is a generalized description of one’s disposition, or of one’s disposition in respect to a general trait, such as honesty, temperance, or peacefulness. ‘Habit,’ in modern usage, both lay and psychological, is more specific. It describes one’s regular response to a repeated specific situation. If we speak of character for care, we think of the person’s tendency to act prudently in all the varying situations of life, in business, family life, in handling automobiles and in walking across the street. A habit, on the other hand, is the person’s regular practice of meeting a particular kind of situation with a specific type of conduct, such as the habit of going down a particular stairway two stairs at a time, or of giving the hand-signal for a left turn, or of alighting from railway cars while they are moving. The doing of the habitual acts may become semi-automatic.” Equivalent behavior on the part of a group is designated “routine practice of an organization” in the rule.

    Agreement is general that habit evidence is highly persuasive as proof of conduct on a particular occasion. Again quoting McCormick §162, p. 341:

    “Character may be thought of as the sum of one’s habits though doubtless it is more than this. But unquestionably the uniformity of one’s response to habit is far greater than the consistency with which one’s conduct conforms to character or disposition. Even though character comes in only exceptionally as evidence of an act, surely any sensible man in investigating whether X did a particular act would be greatly helped in his inquiry by evidence as to whether he was in the habit of doing it.”

    When disagreement has appeared, its focus has been upon the question what constitutes habit, and the reason for this is readily apparent. The extent to which instances must be multiplied and consistency of behavior maintained in order to rise to the status of habit inevitably gives rise to differences of opinion. Lewan, Rationale of Habit Evidence, 16 Syracuse L.Rev. 39, 49 (1964). While adequacy of sampling and uniformity of response are key factors, precise standards for measuring their sufficiency for evidence purposes cannot be formulated.

    The rule is consistent with prevailing views. Much evidence is excluded simply because of failure to achieve the status of habit. Thus, evidence of intemperate “habits” is generally excluded when offered as proof of drunkenness in accident cases, Annot., 46 A.L.R.2d 103, and evidence of other assaults is inadmissible to prove the instant one in a civil assault action, Annot., 66 A.L.R.2d 806. In Levin v. United States, 119 U.S.App.D.C. 156, 338 F.2d 265 (1964), testimony as to the religious “habits” of the accused, offered as tending to prove that he was at home observing the Sabbath rather than out obtaining money through larceny by trick, was held properly excluded;

    “It seems apparent to us that an individual’s religious practices would not be the type of activities which would lend themselves to the characterization of ‘invariable regularity.’ [1 Wigmore 520.] Certainly the very volitional basis of the activity raises serious questions as to its invariable nature, and hence its probative value.” Id. at 272.

    These rulings are not inconsistent with the trend towards admitting evidence of business transactions between one of the parties and a third person as tending to prove that he made the same bargain or proposal in the litigated situation. Slough, Relevancy Unraveled, 6 Kan.L.Rev. 38–41 (1957). Nor are they inconsistent with such cases as Whittemore v. Lockheed Aircraft Corp., 65 Cal.App.2d 737, 151 P.2d 670 (1944), upholding the admission of evidence that plaintiff’s intestate had on four other occasions flown planes from defendant’s factory for delivery to his employer airline, offered to prove that he was piloting rather than a guest on a plane which crashed and killed all on board while en route for delivery.

    A considerable body of authority has required that evidence of the routine practice of an organization be corroborated as a condition precedent to its admission in evidence. Slough, Relevancy Unraveled, 5 Kan.L.Rev. 404, 449 (1957). This requirement is specifically rejected by the rule on the ground that it relates to the sufficiency of the evidence rather than admissibility. A similar position is taken in New Jersey Rule 49. The rule also rejects the requirement of the absence of eyewitnesses, sometimes encountered with respect to admitting habit evidence to prove freedom from contributory negligence in wrongful death cases. For comment critical of the requirements see Frank, J., in Cereste v. New York, N.H. & H.R. Co., 231 F.2d 50 (2d Cir. 1956), cert. denied 351 U.S. 951, 76 S.Ct. 848, 100 L.Ed 1475, 10 Vand.L.Rev. 447 (1957); McCormick §162, p. 342. The omission of the requirement from the California Evidence Code is said to have effected its elimination. Comment, Cal.Ev.Code §1105.

    Committee Notes on Rules—2011 Amendment

    The language of Rule 406 has been amended as part of the restyling of the Evidence Rules to make them more easily understood and to make style and terminology consistent throughout the rules. These changes are intended to be stylistic only. There is no intent to change any result in any ruling on evidence admissibility.

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  6. Joe N. Says:

    Just a warning to everyone, stay away from PNC Mortgage. I was promised on several occasions that PNC would provide me loan commitment on time and would close my loan on time. Although my loan did eventually close one week late, I believe that the stress of dealing with this bank forced my wife into early labor. I had actually explained to the loan officer and manager that I was not feeling like a valued customer at all. I actually recorded my conversation with the manager who told me that they do not work to the contract date (closing date). I was then told that PNC is not allowed to promise that they can make the loan commitment or the closing date on time on a loan. When I asked why the loan officer promised me these things up front, no one was able to answer this. Also, when I asked for reasons why all of this was happening to me, the Loan Officer started to blame the processor and the processing team started to blame the loan officer. What a joke of a company. There is no customer service at PNC Mortgage. This was all done through the St. Louis Branch of PNC Mortgage.

  7. Phil G. Says:

    PNC makes the mafia look like choir boys.

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  19. PNSee ya later Says:

    After being a business a customer with PNC for over a decade with a quarter million dollar line of credit, havinging never missed a payment on the more then a dozen transactions we’ve done with them including term loans and real estate transactions, PNC decided to close our line of credit. After auditing us and finding out that our cash flow could not quite support the debt, they called in the loan with no ability for us to term out with them.

    We have dealt with many banks in the past and present and whenever a bank decides to restructure they always give the option to term out a loan if you have outstanding credit when it’s a line of credit. Chase, Bank of America and others have always restructured debt for us. PNC shut the door in our face forcing us to move to a new bank and incur large closing costs which amounted to more than $20,000 to restructure our entire portfolio.

    If your business customer and PNC decides to call in your credit line you have no hope of having it termed out. I have heard from past PNC employees that they’ve never seen PNC term a credit line out. Beware!

    If you think you have a good relationship with these people, think again. They are truly like the bankers in “Despicable Me”.

    Choose any other bank in case you need to restructure. Don’t take the chance.

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